ANCOR Links: Season 1, Episode 13

André Floyd

I am here with Sean Luechtefeld, our Vice President of Membership and Communications. Sean, how are you?

Sean Luechtefeld

I am good, thank you for having me.

André Floyd

Of course, we like having you on the podcast. And Alli Strong-Martin, my podcast partner, and Communications Coordinator at ANCOR as well. Alli, how are you?

Alli Strong-Martin

I’m doing good, and excited to chat today.

André Floyd

Yeah, I am too, because I’m very excited about what we’re going to chat about. I don’t know if people have seen it. If you haven’t, you are one of the few people in the world, but that’s okay. Don’t feel bad about that. We’re gonna give you all the information you need. And of course, link it in the show notes. But there was a viral video from CoorDown that is just incredible. It went viral on every single social media platform, even ones I am not on. I’m not afraid to say that. I had that time where I just stopped with social media platforms like, all right, that one’s, I’m too old for that one. That belongs to the children. So, but it has gone viral on every single social media platform. It is about Down syndrome and about assumptions as well. So I want to give some context on what I mean when I say viral, okay? So on Instagram, the original post has over 740,000 likes. On Twitter, which, I refuse to call X on Twitter. It has been shared or retweeted over 28,000 times. On YouTube, the original video has over 178,000 views and counting this thing has gone on and on and on. And for good reason, it is a very good message and it’s a very well done video and it’s just awesome and features an absolutely incredible activist who does a great job

Alli Strong-Martin

I love this video so much, André, when it came out. I think at the time that we’re recording this, it’s only been out for about 11 days. So CoorDown and the National Down Syndrome Society partnered to make this video and they released it ahead of World Down Syndrome Day, which was on March 21st. So yeah, the fact that this has been able to get the traction that it’s gotten on all those different platforms in the time that it has. And as someone who is on the platforms that belong to the children, I was really excited in the last week or so to see it come up in spaces and seeing my friends share it who have no connection to disability activism or advocacy. And so that was really cool to see how it resonated, I think, across groups.

Sean Luechtefeld

I will add that I have loved that aspect of this. I think, you know, oftentimes when there’s a video that is going around in my circles, it’s among the folks who are in my circles within the disability community. But really what’s been cool to see this, what’s been cool to see about this just beyond how well done it is, is just that it’s being shared by people who don’t have any necessarily direct connection to this field, this work. They themselves do not identify as a person with a disability, but it was so moving to them that they felt compelled to share it with me because they know the work that I do. And that’s really how you know that something has gained traction.

Alli Strong-Martin

Yeah, and this actress who was featured in the video, Madison Tevlin. I don’t think this is like the first time that she’s been on a viral campaign, is it?

Sean Luechtefeld

No, it’s absolutely not. And I did a little bit of in-depth research from some very credible sources, including one known by the name of Wikipedia. And what I learned about Madison, and I vaguely was familiar with her name, but I didn’t know how she had sort of entered my awareness. But she is actually a Canadian actress and broadcaster. She most recently had hosted a talk show on CBC, GEM. So that’s the streaming service of the Canadian broadcast company. But she had a talk show called, “Who Do You Think I Am?” which actually sort of was one among many really cool projects that she worked on. She originally though was discovered and had kind of garnered widespread attention back about nine or ten years ago when a video of her singing John Legend’s All of Me went viral and even John Legend like reached out to her and you know kind of helped amplify her profile and I think ever since then she has sort of become a symbol of the Down Syndrome community.

André Floyd

Yeah, it is exceptional and she is great in this. So I want to I want to talk a little bit about the campaign. But first, I want to kind of explain the video for people that haven’t seen it. Obviously, we encourage you to watch it. But of course, we’re going to basically just discuss the entire thing. So it is called Assume That I Can. That’s the title of the video. And there are a number of scenarios in the video which Madison goes through, where the central kind of thesis of the video is that assume, you assume that I can’t do this, so then I don’t do it, which places the impetus, of course, on other people without Down syndrome, assuming what she can do because she appears the way she appears or she has Down syndrome. And it is so great to watch the evolution of the video, because it’s first that you assume that, say, like, I cannot drink a margarita, so you do not serve me a margarita, so I don’t have a margarita.

Alli Strong-Martin

And it touches on that aspect of public and social life, but then it also goes into housing, education, all these really basic rights that we all have that, again, like you were talking about, are super impacted by our assumptions of what people can and cannot do, and then society’s assumptions more broadly and how that has real individual impacts on people’s lives.

Sean Luechtefeld

Yeah, and one of the things that I think is really well done is that it doesn’t just sort of assume your assumption is that I can’t do this and so I don’t do it. In each of the examples that she gives throughout the video, there’s sort of a middle piece, which is you don’t support me to do this and so I don’t do this, right? So you assume that I can’t learn Shakespeare, so you don’t teach me Shakespeare, thus I don’t learn Shakespeare. You assume that I can’t hit harder when I’m boxing. And so you don’t coach me to hit harder and thus I don’t hit harder, you know? So it highlights not just the way in which the assumptions can be damaging, but it also calls the viewer’s attention to the role that support plays, right? Whether it’s the support of a teacher or a coach or a bartender, you know, I mean, that’s obviously not support in the way that we typically think about disability supports, but it really just shows like, people can maximize the opportunities that they’re enabled and allowed to pursue. And if you take away the opportunity, it makes it significantly harder for them to pursue it. And so I just love how they juxtapose those two ideas together.

André Floyd

Yeah, and then towards the middle of the ad, it switches and there’s a, but hey, if all your assumptions become reality, then assume that I can drink a margarita, so you serve me a margarita. Assume that I can hit hard, so coach me to hit harder. Assume that I can live on my own, so I live on my own. So then it goes back through the scenarios and shows what would happen without that initial barrier of people making the wrong assumption. And I think that’s also extremely great. So there are so many scenarios within this and it’s so well done because, as Sean mentioned, as Alli mentioned as well, that it really brings out the full scope of the problems they can have. If you don’t do something or assume somebody can’t, then you’re negatively impacting their life because what if they can, right? And so I wanted to talk about for a second, I wanted to talk to Alli and Sean about their favorite parts of the video, because I have a favorite part and I’m wondering if it’s the same as either of you. So Alli, what was your favorite part?

Alli Strong-Martin

Well, I know what your favorite part is, André. So I will let you get to that. I will let you get to that, but. I don’t know if I have a favorite scene or part of the video, but I think what I love so much is how relatable they made it and how these contexts showing up at a bar with your friends and being presumed that you don’t wanna order the same thing that your friends want. That’s a totally relatable thing. And again, like Sean said, it expands the conversation beyond the circles of disability services, disability organizations, and like into the community where we’re all living. And that’s, I think where we’ll get to obviously is the whole point of this is community inclusion. But I think the way that they made it so relatable and just made Madison like the main character, the star, the like the whole thing was so great. So I’ll stop there. Sean, what was your favorite part?

Sean Luechtefeld

Well, now I’m curious as to what our guesses are for what André’s favorite parts are. I will say that Andre was sharing a moment ago about sort of how there’s that transition point in the middle of the video, where it goes from a little bit more like looking directly at the camera, more to like B-roll of her doing different things to live her life you know, there’s that moment where she kind of says, like, you know, assume that I can go to parties, assume that I deserve to be on stage, assume that I can have sex. And it wasn’t just like the assume that I can have sex piece, but that in particular, I thought was really powerful just because it’s provocative, right? It calls attention in a way that like, will turn some heads. But also, it’s a good reminder of something that we’ve talked about on this podcast before, which is that people are people and as humans, we are hardwired to want relationships of all kinds of different sorts, right? So it’s showing her dancing on stage, right? And showing her at the club with her friends and, you know, doing all these things that are just core experiences of, you know, having a friendship, having a relationship, having an intimate partner, right? All of those things that a lot of us are fortunate enough that we can take for granted, but it calls attention to those things in a way that really, one, I think is partly why people are paying attention to this video, but two, remind folks that like, we might need different kinds of supports to make it happen, but at the end of the day, we all ultimately want the same thing, which is to live a life that looks largely the way we want it to and to do that without limitation.

André Floyd

Yeah, I love that part. And I also love how, and this gets to the part that I love the most, is that even in the second part of the video where assumptions are being challenged and you’re no longer being challenged and you’re getting that full realization of life, drinking a margarita, having sex, doing these things, there’s still some dropped in things to make sure that you’re not assuming other things that maybe went unsaid in the first part of the video. So the first one, the one that really hits me is assume that I can learn Shakespeare. So I learned Shakespeare. And then there’s the reading of Shakespeare with a foot on the desk, which I think is great. I feel like you have to have a very regal pose when you read Shakespeare, apple in the hand, that sort of thing. But then there’s also an F-bomb. So I learn F-ing Shakespeare and then it’s “you assumed I couldn’t swear,” right? And I’m like, there it is. Yes, I love that. Like, keep challenging the assumption. So that is my favorite part. And honestly, I’m sorry to say this on the podcast and I hope my mom’s not listening. I do enjoy a well-placed F-bomb and I thought this one was very well-placed.

Sean Luechtefeld

I mean, we all we all might be connoisseurs here, but we are keeping it PG for our listeners. I will say, though, one thing I loved was that the clean version of the video got a small tiny fraction of the number of views as the original version, which had the well-placed F-bomb. So that probably says something too about the kinds of people with whom this is resonating.

Alli Strong-Martin

I knew that that was gonna be your favorite part, André. And so, yes, I hope your mom’s not listening, but we’re here for it.

André Floyd

I appreciate it. I also don’t know what it says about me that that’s what your assumption was. And it was absolutely right, but we’re not here to talk about me, so it’s fine. So yeah, the video is exceptional, it is great, but I also wanted to have a conversation a little bit more expansive as well because I think on the basis of this video, especially what we do here at ANCOR, and of course ANCOR is for the full inclusion of people with disabilities. It is not specifically developmental disabilities, but it is Developmental Disabilities Awareness Month. And so I do wanna also talk about how this can impact other people with different types of developmental disabilities and how it’s all about this assumption that becomes what someone can and can’t do. And attacking that assumption is like key and central to getting rid of not only stigma, but also making sure that people with disabilities can live a full inclusive life. As Sean was just saying, like, this is the entire point, which is why I think the video resonated with us so well, is because we did that Leonardo DiCaprio meme where he’s pointing at the TV. Like, that’s it. That’s what we do. That’s what we want. There it is for everybody. And that’s the reaction that I had. So Sean, as you like related to what ANCOR does, as you relate it to DD Awareness Month, what else did you kind of see? Or how did the video resonate with you when it comes to every other type of developmental disability and disabilities in general?

Sean Luechtefeld

I mean, I worry that I sound a little bit like a one-trick pony here when I say this, but for me, it’s always about acknowledging and then also investing in a person’s abilities, right? And so, you know, when I look at this video, I recognize that it was created for Down syndrome, World Down Syndrome Day, and I can recognize that Madison Tevlin is a symbol of the Down syndrome community. But in my mind, Down syndrome is one disability among a wide array. And even though the experiences of folks with intellectual and developmental disabilities may be different, one of the unifying themes is that folks with these disabilities are significantly more likely than their non-disabled counterparts to be at the whim of other people’s assumptions, right? And, you know, they’re more likely to have the opportunities in front of them limited because of other people’s assumptions. And so…For me, what I always struggle with when we talk about Developmental Disabilities Awareness Month or DD Awareness Month is that we always kind of say in February, like, what do we want to do to support the campaign, to really sort of bring height and visibility. At ANCOR, the reality is this is what we’re doing every day of the year. And so sometimes it’s hard to answer that question. But I think what I always come back to is that awareness is just one piece of it also about making sure that we invest in people’s ability to live the life of their choosing, to be able to live with whom they want to live with and live in the community where they want to be and to have the job they want to have and to engage in leisure activities the way they want to engage in leisure activities, right? But all of that requires some support and all of those supports require some investment. And so it’s like, maybe that’s why what I mentioned earlier stood out to me about how…It wasn’t just, you assume I can’t and so I don’t. It’s, you assume I can’t and so you don’t support me to do it, right? And I think where it just, you know, really sort of reminds me of the opportunity we have at ANCOR to bring more visibility is not just to say like, hey, people with developmental disabilities exist. Like, yes, that’s an important message because unfortunately folks too often remain invisible. But the more important piece is what can we do better if we are to take seriously the call to action that Madison offers, which is assume that I can, so maybe I will. And I think that’s what ANCOR providers are doing day in and day out. It’s what we strive to advocate on behalf of as a staff and as a national association. It’s all about like, how do we actually ensure that it’s not just people’s assumptions that are changed but it’s also the set of options and resources they have in front of them to be able to live the life that looks the way they want it to look.

Alli Strong-Martin

I think for me too, one of the biggest, biggest underlying messages in the video relating to what you were talking about, Sean, is about how our assumptions impact the level of support or our actions that we take in interacting with people, whether it’s developmental disabilities or people with disabilities in general. I think in the conversations we’ve had on ANCOR Links and in other forums about ableism, I think it can get, I at least sometimes feel it when I talk about it, it can kind of feel academic or it can kind of feel hard to wrap your mind around the real impacts of it. And I think that this video…without saying the word ableism at all, it called out so many of the ableist assumptions that we have, and knowing that that is people in the general community who don’t really interact with people with disabilities on a daily basis can hold those assumptions, but also that people who do interact with people with disabilities on a daily basis, we might hold some of those assumptions about alcohol consumption, sexual relationships or some of those again this this video really pushed at some of those conversations that even those of us who work with people with disabilities every day those come some of those conversations that we haven’t fully unpacked and explored ourselves. And so I think that again without saying that word Ableism or getting into an overly academic explanation of what ableism is, I think that it really, it made myself kind of look inward and think about those assumptions and stereotypes that I still hold, even after years of working with people with disabilities. And yeah, I think that it challenges us to all do the same.

André Floyd

Yeah. And I love that you brought that part up because I do think that that’s really important, you know, that ableist part when you…It’s tough too, because there are gonna be many people who understand what ableism is or are curious and want to know what ableism is, but you are right, when you talk about it, it does come from a kind of academic background, which is not a bad thing. There’s a lot of study done. We talked about one of our previous episodes was about a study done on bias and ableism as well. And I think those things are really important, but this is why I really enjoyed the videos because it showed like…real life applications of what these things do. And so how to push back against those things in real life can change somebody’s life. And kind of like Sean said as well, the support aspect of it is crucial. We talk about that a lot here at Anchor as well, because it’s all about obviously funding, but the funding is for supports to make sure that people can do these things, that people can surpass these negative assumptions that people have and say, hey, what do you want your life to look like? What are the amounts of supports that we need to give to get you there? And let’s do it, like let’s make this happen. And that’s one thing that I love kind of looking ahead at kind of an ANCOR internal thing that we do, but we publish about DSPs, direct support professionals and kind of spotlight some of the work that they do each year with an award. And really that award is all about who’s focusing on that level of support. You know, who is getting, who is being that person that is saying, hey, you have something you want to do or achieve, you want your life to look like this, and we’re gonna get you there. And it’s not being, not making assumptions, not doing stuff for someone, just being that one little piece that says, hey, just gonna connect this little dot and you’re gonna fly. And that’s exactly what we want. And that’s why I think the video is so awesome, because you see what it looks like in reality when there’s that support, there’s a full life. There’s a reserved life in the beginning and you can see her reactions are sad, there are frustration, there’s anger. And then in the back half, you see thriving, you see enjoyment, you see laughter, you see so many, the breadth of life. And it’s like, that’s what it is. That’s what we want everybody to have.

Sean Luechtefeld

I think that’s exactly right. Cause I feel like for me, the other thing that stands out, right? So part of it is, we are so focused on people with disabilities and how do we give them the same opportunities, which requires us to invest in those opportunities and it requires an adequate workforce and it requires structures and systems in place. But on the other end of the spectrum, it also reminds me that we all need a little bit of support to do everything. Right. I mean, in one sense, that’s because something like a quarter of or more people in the United States identify as having a disability, right? And so we all have, I mean, I have my own disability and I recognize that there are supports I need to just kind of help me manage that from time to time. But even people without disabilities, or even people who are disabled, but have completely different support needs, right? We all need a little bit of help sometimes, right? Like, I think about all of those examples in the video of, you know, going to parties, boxing, right? I need, I need a coach in the gym to get me to do literally anything, including probably somebody to put on boxing gloves so that I will go to the gym, right? Because I am not athletic or talented in that way at all, right? And so it’s like one of those things that’s so simple because we all can…relate to a moment in our lives where we’ve needed a little bit more support. And so that can sometimes be big systemic change, but that can also sometimes be just the simplest, most natural supports that already exist in our lives. But often we don’t ask for the support that we need or we ask for it, but it’s nowhere to be found.

Alli Strong-Martin

Right. So one of the things that I was thinking about throughout the video is how exciting it was for me to see I don’t know, it’s not how far we’ve come, but okay. So one of the first role that I worked in this field was in a direct support role and it was in 2017. And part of our training was all about presuming competence. So it was about presuming that somebody could understand what you were saying, even if they couldn’t communicate back to you using words or, or, you know, full sentences, right? And so it was all about presuming competence. And I remember thinking that that was such an important tenant to kind of learn and practice as a professional. But also I remember being frustrated that presuming competence seemed kind of like the baseline and that we weren’t really going beyond that in some of our conversations that we were having. And again, that was seven years ago. I can’t believe that was seven years ago. But the fact that this video just kind of blew that presumed competence out of the water. And it was like, yes, think about presuming competence, but also all of these other things to being included and fully valued as a member of your community.

André Floyd

I love that. And I think that is a perfect place for us to end with this discussion because I think that we’ve all brought up some good points, but also just go watch the video. Again, it’s in the show notes. It’s amazing. Share it with people, share it with friends and keep it in mind. I think this is the other thing about awareness too, is that I enjoy awareness months, but now it’s also action. What do you do as a result of this knowledge now? How do you change your own life, your own perceptions, and challenge other people around you to do the same thing? Because awareness is great, but it’s that second part about action. When you get something that’s powerful and you’re like, oh, and something clicks or changes, then I think that action that happens afterward is so important and it’s fine. Like we live in a social media world. We live in a world where everything is so connected. So if it happens to be an ad campaign such as this that changes your mind, ain’t no shame in that. It’s all good. And it’s gonna benefit the next person that you come across and you’re gonna challenge yourself before making that assumption. And that is gonna go so much farther in their life as well and helping them. So like, I’m just like, I love that we had this conversation. I love that video. I’m probably gonna go watch it again and maybe a couple more times to get those views, continue to get those views rolling in. Half of them are mine anyway. And it’s just amazing. So Alli, thank you so much.

Alli Strong-Martin

Thanks, André.

André Floyd

And Sean, thank you as well.

Sean Luechtefeld

Thank you guys. Always a pleasure.